ST Podcast Ep. 50: Chris Rankin and The Magic of Connection
On the 50th episode of the Superhero Therapy Podcast, Dr. Scarlet and Dustin are joined by the magically wonderful actor and wizard, Chris Rankin, known for his role as Percy Weasley in the Harry Potter series. This episode covers the pitfalls of isolation, how to be a real-life member of the Order of the Phoenix, and the magic of social connection.
TRANSCRIPTION BELOW:
Superhero Therapy Podcast Ep. 50: Chris Rankin and The Magic of Connection
The information in this podcast is of a general nature, and is intended for educational and entertainment purposes only. It should never be used as a substitute for mental care, medical care, or prevention, diagnosis or treatment of any other illness. Always consult with a mental health or health care professional before engaging in any activities promoted in this podcast.
Have you ever wanted to be a superhero? Join clinical psychologist Dr. Janina Scarlet and host Dustin McGinnis as they explore the psychology behind your favorite TV shows, movies, books, comics, video games and more. Thanks for listening and enjoy the show.
Dustin McGinnis: Hello and welcome to Superhero Therapy with Dr. Janina Scarlet. I’m your host Dustin McGinnis. I am a musician, filmmaker and all around fanboy.
Dr. Janina Scarlet: And I’m Dr. Janina Scarlet, clinical psychologist, author and a full-time geek.
Voiceover from Harry Potter:
Dumbledore: Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times if only one remembers to turn on the light.
McGinnis: We are continuing our special podcast series aimed at supporting our listeners through the Coronavirus pandemic, and today we will be discussing ways we can cope with grief and loneliness during this hard time. We have a very special guest with us today, the wonderful actor, Chris Rankin. You might know him from Harry Potter as having played the role of Percy Weasley. Chris, welcome to the show.
Chris Rankin: Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me on. It’s a great privilege.
McGinnis: Chris, can you tell our audience a little bit about yourself?
Rankin: Oh goodness, where do I start? Okay. So born and raised in New Zealand, I was adopted by my parents who emigrated out there after they got married years and years and years ago. I was adopted out there and we moved back to the U K when I was about six. Very shy child. I’m going full history here, by the way. [laughter]
Scarlet: That’s terrific!
Rankin: A very, very shy child. Then discovered performing arts, and performing arts helped me very much come out of my shell. And then, yeah, I guess most of my formative years were documented on 35 millimeter and broadcast across cinemas worldwide. So, yeah, the rest of that’s a little bit out there. And then, um, since Harry Potter, I’ve worked in television, film production, I direct, I produce, I run a community theater group charity and do all sorts of fun, interesting and slightly bonkers things with my life.
Scarlet: That’s amazing that you’re able to help so many people. Would you be willing to tell us a little bit about some of the organizations that you’re involved with?
Rankin: Oh, sure. So one of the things that comes with the territory of being in a film like Harry Potter is the incredible privilege to be invited, work with organizations and charities, especially. I’m a patron of a charity in the States called Transfiguring Adoption, a wonderful charity who helped create ways for parents to engage with children in their care, and start conversations about difficult situations through visual and audio media, etc. They’re wonderful people. I met them at a Harry Potter Comic-Con and obviously, being an adopted child myself, what they do really, really struck a chord with me. And it’s nice to be able to use my experience and Harry Potter and use both of those things to help towards foster and adopted kids.
I work with several animal charities cause I’ve got two doggies here, and absolutely love our dogs, and I’m a trustee and the current chairman of a theater company in mid Wales in the U.K. where I live, it’s a community theater group that’s charitable objective is to provide performing arts opportunities and performing arts shows to an area called Bracken and its surrounding communities, which is incredibly good fun and a huge privilege and I’m very much enjoying sort of leading the way with them at the moment, which is wonderful.
Scarlet: Fantastic.
McGinnis: That’s wonderful. So we don’t really hear too much about what’s going on over there in the U.K. How are you coping over there with this?
Rankin: I live in South Wales, which is about two-and-a-half hours West of London, I guess. Where me and my partner live is a relatively sort of residential area, we’re sort of on the edge of a smallish city. I mean the pandemic is affecting us as a nation quite severely at the moment. We are under lockdown for want of a better word. That’s what we’re calling it here. Lockdown, which essentially means that you’re not allowed out of the house unless it’s to get essential groceries, visit, and look after a vulnerable, relative or friend, or to go for your one allotted amount of exercise per day, which you must do from your house. You’re not allowed to get in the car and drive off to the countryside to do it or whatever.
It’s weird. I’m not going to lie. It’s a very peculiar thing. I mean, in my line of work, I’m self employed and I kind of work a lot from home anyway, so probably four or five days a week I’m at the house, but I’m still going to my little home study and sitting in front of my computer and making videos and talking to people like you guys on podcasts and sort of normal day to day stuff that I do generally. That hasn’t really changed. But the weird thing is when it’s a night and it’s a beautiful sunny day here today, when you think, Oh, wouldn’t it be nice to just go for a walk along the river? Nope. Not going to happen. We’d been in lockdown – I think we’re entering – we’re coming to the end of week two now, I believe, of what the U.K .government has suggested initially will be a three week lockdown.
I suspect, and I’m almost certain that it will be continued for a considerably longer time than three weeks. But yeah, I think we will start to see the effects of it over the next few days. Certainly the numbers of cases and tragically the numbers of deaths relating to Covid-19 have been escalating over the last few days. From what I’ve been told personally, I’m avoiding the news. I find that I’ve used the filters on my social media to kind of cut away all of the sort of pandemic talk because I find that it’s not too good for me to read things when I don’t want to see them.
McGinnis: Right.
Scarlet: Absolutely. And I’m glad that you and your loved ones are staying safe, and I think minimizing the amount of news related to Covid-19 is a very smart idea. As a clinical psychologist, I see a lot of individuals right now who are struggling with overwhelming anxiety and fears relating to the pandemic. And that’s the number one strategy that we work on is minimizing our news consumption.
Rankin: Yeah, I go to three or four specific places to get my news at the moment. Trust is a weird word when it comes to news media over here. Certainly, I’m sure it’s the same for you guys in the States as well. I like to take in a range of news generally sort of across the spectrum, left to right, just to kind of keep a gauge on things. But seeing it come up on your Twitter feed or your Facebook feed constantly from all sorts of sort of undocumented uncategorized sources is not healthy for me. And so I don’t think it’s healthy for anybody, quite frankly. So I go to four or five places that I know will give me, albeit a politicized view, one that is backed up with educated opinion and hopefully some facts along the way. And I do that sort of maybe every other day at the moment, I guess.
McGinnis: Yeah, I mean we kind of do the same thing here. We try to focus on sites like the CDC where you know you’re getting firsthand knowledge that is extremely relevant, [laughs] but there’s something interesting going on right now during this extremely challenging time. Many people are turning towards their favorite fandoms to support and give them a sense of connection. Why do you think the Harry Potter fandom is so important right now in helping people cope with this ongoing pandemic?
Rankin: Well, I think Harry Potter is a very unique fandom community. From my point of view, it’s the first fandom community, as a fan, before I got into the films, I was a fan of the books, but it was the first fandom community that I got involved with and also the first one that I was very aware of as an online presence sort of in the late ’90s early 2000s when we were all still posting on forums and talking to each other on MSN messenger and things like that. It’s a very close knit virtual family, and has been for a lot of 20-something-odd-years now. 20…
Scarlet: Three?
Rankin: Certainly 20, probably 23 years, let’s say 21, 22 years as an online group. Harry Potter is one that a lot of people identify with it as a fandom, because of the sort of themes of the stories is about feeling like an outcast, or feeling alone and feeling like you fit in, and then finding your chosen family. And I think that’s a huge comfort to a lot of people to sort of look at it from Harry’s point of view and say, there are people out there like me. I think that’s why it’s sort of such a great community to be involved with.
Scarlet: Absolutely. And as a clinical psychologist, I see so many folks who are struggling with that sense of belonging as, not just now, but have for a long period of time, where reading the Harry Potter series and watching the movies have allowed them to feel that they weren’t alone. And so, now more than ever, I see folks engaging in online fandom communities to support one another, to talk about how the different characters in the Harry Potter books coped with different kinds of struggles that they went through, and how they can utilize similar experiences. I think one of the appeals, well for me and for a lot of patients that I see, is how psychological the series are, right? Because the Harry Potter series teach us how to cope with loneliness. They teach us how to cope with being bullied. They teach us how to cope with depression and anxiety and trauma. Arguably…
Rankin: And loss.
Scarlet: Loss!
Rankin: Loss. Loss is a huge one in Harry Potter.
Scarlet: You’re absolutely right. Right? And actually the Weasley family themselves experienced the devastating loss when Fred passed away during the Battle of Hogwarts. And so I think, never has this fandom been more relevant and more important than it is right now.
Rankin: Absolutely. There’s some very well-covered and very important themes in the Harry Potter books. Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with that.
McGinnis: You guys are talking about these wonderful themes and there’s also these wonderful lessons. What are some of the real life lessons that we can utilize from Harry Potter to become the real life version of the Order of the Phoenix?
Rankin: Oh goodness me.
McGinnis: [laughs] I put you on the spot, didn’t I?
Rankin: I think one of the things that always resonates with me – I’m just thinking about the trio in particularly Harry, Ron and Hermione, is that through the books, they very vocally have their differences, and there are times when each individually sort of becomes the outcast of the friendship group, I think it’s fair to say. There’s points where in Deathly Hallows, especially, for example, there’s the part where Ron, albeit under the influence of a Horcrux that he’s been wearing, abandons his friends, but they don’t abandon him.
Sure, they have arguments, and they’re angry with each other, but he’s still their friend, and they still worry about him, and they still care about him. They always come back together, and they have the ability to be honest with each other about what they’re feeling, and why they’re feeling it, I think, is an important part of that. I think one of the wonderful things about The Order of the Phoenix, especially towards the end, is the spread of age that it covers as well. So you’ve got the original Order of the Phoenix, the surviving members, you’ve got the Dumbledores and the the Kingsley Shacklebolts, Mr. and Mrs. Weasley, Remus Lupin, Sirius as well. And then as the newer members come in as well, there’s a sort of, again, a sort of family created out of that. There’s a lot to be learned from it. Yeah.
Scarlet: I love that you said that. I love that you mentioned that there’s this age gap, and that everyone is essentially an equal member of the Order of the Phoenix.
Rankin: Absolutely.
Scarlet: And I think that an important lesson that I also wanted to take away in addition to all the wonderful things you said is the fact that The Order of the Phoenix also holds regular meetings. And one of the things that perhaps we can do, and some of the things I’ve seen many folks doing, and I’ve advised my clients to do, is to very much become the real life version of Order the Phoenix and holding regular meetings on virtual media, like through Zoom for example, or FaceTime or Skype, to help each other to process what they’re going through, and to figure out how they can support one another, how to face this kind of monster. And I think that essentially that is what many of us are becoming. You know, some people are using different words and for the Harry Potter fandom, it’s the Order of the Phoenix and for other fandoms it might be different terms. But I think that is what’s happening because the truth is, as awful as this pandemic has been, I think I’ve never, since I’ve been alive, seen as much compassion and cooperation as I have in the last few weeks.
Rankin: I think that’s definitely fair to say. I don’t know what it’s like over there at the moment. From what I understand in the States – in some places you’re, you’re ahead of us in terms of the social isolation, social distancing, you’re calling it sheltering…
Scarlet: Shelter in place.
Rankin: Yeah, shelter in place. That’s what you’re calling it. Yeah. We were calling it social distancing, #stayathome in the U.K. I don’t know. I feel like sheltering in place is a much more positive way to talk about it. The way we’re talking about it over here, talking about if you feel like, for instance, our government is saying, if you think you might have symptoms relating to Coronavirus or Covid-19 or certainly anything that’s similar to it, that you must socially isolate, which is quite a negative term. Isolate, isolation is not a good thing.
McGinnis: We’re starting to hear a change into “physical distancing.”
Scarlet: Right, so recently, I think about a week ago, the World Health Organization has talked about changing the term “social distancing” to “physical distancing.” Exactly because of that. Because then some folks are confused and they think they also need to not speak to other people, even over social media. So in order to promote social connection, even while physically distancing, we’re now starting to use the term, at least in the United States, physical distancing, and when folks are exhibiting symptoms, we’re talking about like, quarantine, because you’re right, I’m so glad you brought that up because terms like isolation, they’re associated with loneliness and depression and can be misinterpreted by some folks too.
McGinnis: And we’re all promoting all this connection, you know, kind of like how you were saying about Ron and Hermione and banding around them after they left. You need to keep that connection going.
Rankin: Absolutely do. Absolutely. Now I don’t think I’ve been off my phone in three weeks in some way, shape or form, which, you know, under the normal scheme of things isn’t far from the truth anyway. You know, we always tweeting or popping something on Instagram or Facebook or Facebook Messenger group with your friends or whatever. But the number of conversations I’ve had has shot up, it’s fair to say, you know, sure, I’m not seeing my friends. I’m not able to go and visit them. But in some ways we’re communicating more than we ever have, which is strange and wonderful at the same time.
McGinnis: Yeah. It’s almost like we’re a little more social than we used to be.
Scarlet: Absolutely. You know, I think that, under normal circumstances, people often report being too busy to check in with their friends and then unfortunately they have all these regrets that they haven’t spent enough time with their friends and other loved ones, and now we’re seeing people going through almost like an element of post-traumatic growth where they’re reprioritizing their core values. They’re recognizing what’s really important to them, and making more time for the people that really matter.
Rankin: Yeah, that’s for sure. Yeah.
McGinnis: One of the biggest contributions that the Harry Potter series teaches us is how to defeat monsters, including the Death Eaters and Lord Voldemort who are trying to take over the world. What are some of the ways that people can stand up against this monster and support one another in this war?
Rankin: Oh, there’s a question. God, this is good, guys! [laughter] This is just getting the gray matter working on a Sunday for me. The obvious answer to that question is that there is a physical element to it. They physically defeat Voldemort. There is a battle, they have a physical fight, but I think behind it all is the group effort, and I think that’s the important takeaway at the moment, is that when you look at, for instance, the uprising led mostly by Hogwarts and the Order of the Phoenix against the new regime at the Ministry. It’s sort of an anti-propaganda campaign. I know the Ministry is certainly running a propaganda campaign under Umbridge, but what Hogwarts and the Order, especially the Order, kind of run, is a sort of mass anti-propaganda campaign and I think Covid-19 is a pandemic. There was no getting away from that. So it’s not propaganda coming from our leaders and governments and politicians currently. However, I think the uprising against this pandemic is our ability to metaphorically assemble and work as a team, apart, but together to fight this off by staying indoors.
McGinnis: There’s so many things we could do. It’s a global pandemic that’s affecting everybody and we all have our parts in it. And we can all benefit.
Scarlet: Absolutely. I love what you said because, you know, I mentioned this in one of our previous podcasts, there are seven billion people in the world, and each and every one of us now has a role to play, and much like the Battle of Hogwarts, every single one of us needs to show up in the way that would be most helpful for facing this pandemic. And so for some people it might mean going to work if they’re working in a hospital or a grocery store for example, or a pharmac. For people who are not working these essential kind of jobs, the most helpful thing that we can do is stay at home and practice physical distancing, but not just stay at home, but stay at home and fight by staying at home and supporting other people.
Rankin: Absolutely. I think that’s one of the wonderful things that’s come straight away, straight away. And I know part of it is as a self employed creative, and there’s a lot of artists, performers, actors, musicians – about three or four weeks ago, probably three weeks ago, basically sat and watched over the course of 24 hours, my entire spring and summer schedule get canceled. All of it, you know, like literally within 24 hours of the government going, we’re going to stop events certainly for the next month. The knock on effect was that everything, all the Comic-Cons, all the various things I had, performances with the community group that we had organized, rehearsals that we were organizing for that short film I was planning on directing, which I’m still writing so fortunately it’s given me time to actually finish the script, but all of these things have just vanished. And the first thing that the artistic community and the creatives and quote unquote celebrities as a mass did was say, right you guys, you stay at home, don’t go out, you stay there, we’ll entertain you.
This is what we can do, don’t you move. And the amount of stuff that’s suddenly sprung out, even from theater companies, from Broadway shows now being streamed live, being available to watch on YouTube, on Vimeo and Facebook, etc. to webcasts that I’ve been doing, Twitch streams, Facebook Live things, all this accessible stuff that is there to promote happiness, positivity, creativity, and yet to keep you very much inside your house is remarkable. And I think there’s an awful lot to be said for the people who are helping the effort, not necessarily from a scientific or medical point of view, but from an entertainment point of view. I guess. It’s all part of the effort, isn’t it?
Scarlet: Absolutely. And thank you for being a part of that and thank you for joining us today as well for that same reason, to provide hope and education to our listeners. Thank you for that.
Rankin: Yeah. Gotcha. I mean, it’s a double bonus is what it is because I get to help as much as I can and I get to keep being creative, which is something personally I need to do. Otherwise I will go insane. Just sat here not being able to sing, or perform, or do anything like that would be detrimental for me as much as it would be for anybody else not to be able to participate in performing arts in some way, shape, or form.
Scarlet: Right.
McGinnis: You were just talking about creativity and entertainment and inspiring joy through this medium. And of course, with everything going on right now, many people are experiencing hopelessness and grief and overwhelm. Yet as Dumbledore himself reminds us in The Prisoner of Azkaban, happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light. How can we balance our grief with joy and love? If you want, we can have Dr. Scarlet start this one.
Rankin: Yes, please, Dr. Scarlet! [laughter]
Scarlet: I love that you brought up this Dumbledore quote because one of my absolute favorite Dumbledore quotes of all time, is where he tells Harry, the fact that you can feel pain like this is perhaps your greatest strength. And I think the fact that we can feel so much distress, actually shows how incredibly loving and compassionate we are. We feel pain because we care. We should. And, at the same time, where there’s pain, there’s love, and where there’s love, there’s pain. And I think that the trick, really, is being open to all emotions. The thing about emotions is that they’re an all or none kind of deal. And if we suppress grief, then we don’t have the ability to feel joy. And so the idea is to allow ourselves to make time for grief, to maybe even sit with it and also to notice that the reason why we feel grief is because we love, we love people, we love humanity. We love being able to spend time with people that maybe we can’t see in person right now, and to make room for all emotions that show up. I think the idea is also to remember that we’re all contributing to the betterment of this world right now by all the sacrifices that all of us are making. This is us being essentially magical folks in real life. This is our very own Battle of Hogwarts and for anyone who’s ever wanted to be accepted to Hogwarts. This is it. This is your letter. This is your chance. You know, this is us fighting this battle together and it’s not going to be easy. And at the same time the very fact that you’re in this battle, that already makes you magical.
Rankin: Absolutely. I think you are the expert. I am merely a person experiencing this like anybody else at the moment. But I think as you sort of said, and it’s something that I have come across before, not under these circumstances. When I was 19 my father died, and I didn’t deal with that particularly well at the time. I didn’t let myself grieve properly and did to some extent pay the price for that further down the line. But it’s all good now. All dealt with, and we’re in a good place with that. And one thing I’ve noticed talking to people on Twitter, cause I check in with people on Twitter, I just pop out a message every couple of days going, how is everybody? It’s a catch all situation. There are people out there that don’t have anybody to talk to and sometimes you get messages saying I’m feeling very lonely and very anxious and very scared, and I kind of – some people I’ve been replying to saying that it’s okay to be scared.
This is scary. But if you can understand what it is that you’re scared of and why, then you’ll be okay with this. Just accept that these feelings are the right feelings to be having, and find a way through. I mean personally I downloaded an app on my phone a couple of weeks ago, sort of breathing and meditation app, which is not something I’ve ever done before, but helped tremendously. Just, you know, taking 10 minutes at the beginning or the end of the day to sit and listen to some pan pipes and tinkly music and have a very soothing voice telling me to breathe in and out was wonderful. So it’s okay to be scared. It’s okay to feel anxious about this. It’s something that you should feel anxious about, but equally, it’s also okay to say that you’re feeling anxious about it because so is everybody else and we’re all working together to look after each other through this, I think is my take on it.
What you were saying a moment ago about this is how our Hogwarts reminded me of a Wizard Rock song, which I believe is a Harry and the Potters song called “The Weapon We Have is Love.” I don’t know, it just, it came to me then and I kind of went, oh God. A sort of well of emotion came up through me as I was going, [sings] “The weapon we have is love.” It’s absolutely true right now. I think, you know the weapon we have here is to look after each other and to love each other and to do this together.
McGinnis: Yes, absolutely. And to love ourselves. We had an amazing guest on recently too, that talked about just, sometimes having the ability to just get up and dance, putting on a good tune and just moving your shoulders and stuff like that. And I actually have a memory of you and another friend doing DDR, like Dance, Dance Revolution…
Rankin: Yeah!
McGinnis: …and I just got that in my head for some reason [laughter], just bouncing around. I don’t know, just try to keep that joy going.
Scarlet: Yes, I love that moment. I love that moment, just seeing you two. That’s great.
McGinnis: This is very positive and this is wonderful. Is there anything else you’d like to say to people who are struggling at this moment?
Rankin: Don’t struggle alone, I think, is the most probably obvious. I think it’s obvious to everybody, but it’s not always the easiest thing to solve, or to bring yourself to knit. Just don’t suffer alone. You know, there are hundreds and hundreds of millions of us, especially in the fandom communities, not just Harry Potter, but across the board. Sometimes it’s easier to talk to strangers, I find, because that helps. There are communities, there are Twitter, there is social media, there are places, I have to say, I find Instagram to be the most positive space at the moment, purely because it’s so kind of visual rather than text-based. There’s a lot more happiness and a lot less immediate news, etc., on Instagram. I’m personally finding, but there are people out there who are into the same things as you who will happily just get straight onto a chat with you, be it, over Twitter, over Facebook group, over anything at all to talk about things that you like as a distraction or as a coping method. And I think that’s one of the wonderful things about fandom communities is that we are all immediately on the same level as each other because of this thing that we love.
Scarlet: Exactly. Well said. And I would also like to add that if you’re feeling a certain way, chances are most people you know are probably feeling similar emotions.
Rankin: Absolutely.
Scarlet: If you’re feeling lonely, if you’re feeling depressed, if you’re feeling hopeless, chances are there are people all around you that are having the same experiences. And so writing about what you’re going through or making a video or a podcast about what you’re going through can help, not only yourself to better understand what you’re experiencing, but can also help other people to know that they’re not alone. So actually by talking about what you’re going through can actually help other people. So share your story, and maybe taking what you are going through and turning it into a creative expression of some kind can actually be a very important contribution to the world. And of course, for anyone out there who is having a really hard time, who’s struggling with suicidal thoughts, there are different kinds of texts hotlines in the United States. The crisis text hotline is 741-741. I believe in the U.K .there’s the Samaritans hotline, I apologize, I don’t remember the number, but a quick Google search will provide that for you. But the idea is there are resources in every country that will offer a free and confidential crisis support network if you need somebody to talk to. And there’s also a website I would like to, it’s called the mighty M, I, G, H, T, Y. It’s themighty.com where you can find a lot of resources for understanding mental health and how to cope with the pandemic.
Rankin: Just a quick kid. The Samaritan’s number in the U.K. is 116123.
Scarlet: Perfect. Thank you, Chris.
McGinnis: All I want to say is stay connected. That’s one of the biggest underlying themes that we’ve been noticing in this series of podcasts that we’ve been doing. Reach out. You can reach out to crisis tech lines or you can reach out to friends and communities like Chris was mentioning. Just try to stay connected because we are all in this together.
Scarlet: I like to imagine all 7 billion of us kind of virtually holding hands from a distance, forming a circle around this virus so that we can face it together, so that we can defeat it together.
McGinnis: Most definitely. Chris, thank you so much. We know that you have a lot on your plate today, so we just wanted to say thank you and can you please provide us your social media or ways to get in touch with you?
Rankin: Yes, of course. And thank you so much for having me guys. It’s honestly, it’s been an absolute privilege to talk with you guys about such an important subject right now. In terms of getting in touch with me, I am on Twitter @ChrisRankin. I’m on Instagram at @CWRankin cause I’m not one of these people that manages to have the same handles on everything. And my website, which has access to all of my social media is ChrisRankin.co.uk. If in doubt, find Chris Rankin with a verified blue tick next to it and you’ll be able to find me there. I’m always around for a Twitter conversation. Always here.
McGinnis: Well thank you once again. We’re going to go ahead and in this episode of Superhero Therapy. Again, my name is Dustin McGinnis. You can find me on Twitter @thevaliantgeek.
Scarlet: And I’m Dr. Janina Scarlet. You can find me on Twitter @shadowquill or @drjaninascarletofficial on Instagram.
McGinnis: Thank you all so much for tuning in, and remember, you are a superhero.
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